Talk:History of money and banking
- No problem with that. Pestergaines 11:33, 18 November 2010 (CST)
The Origins of Coinage
The section in this article about the first coins is flawed. See my work here: http://www.washtenawjustice.com/Origins1.html
I have published these articles.
“Electrum,” The Celator, Vol. 17, no. 8 (August 2003), p. 25-31: ill.
"The Origin of Coinage: Evolution of a Theory, The Celator Vol. 11, No. 10, October, 1997, p. 32-34.
“A New Look at the Origins of Coinage,” The Numismatist, August 1995
“Electrum Sixths and the Treaty of Mytilene,” Classical Numismatic Review, Vol. 20 no. 2, Summer 1995, p. 7-8.
“Some Questions on the Origins of Coinage,” Classical Numismatic Review, Vol. 19, no. 3, p. 3. Numismatist 22:33, 11 December 2010
- I had a discussion about this with someone and your article certainly brings the speculation forward! You could also imagine that the marks came about when dividing a larger amount of lumps of electrum - say, the production of a mine - and the owners would store these in their treasuries at first, before allocating them to whichever uses they had in mind (trade away, melt down and/or create objects out of) or simply hoard. In that case, the stamped pieces would not wander very far from their point of origin, but it could be the inspiration for coins as we know them.
- Anyway! Which of the articles is the best to link to, and is there an online version? (I can link to your personal website, but a published resource, especially one that people can check, would look much better.) Pestergaines 17:58, 12 December 2010 (CST)
Jan 27, '11: I know of no online presentation except the one I created http://www.washtenawjustice.com/Origins1.html
The traditional 11th Edition Encyclopedia Britannica is in error. Charles Seltman wrote the aticle and he put his own "merchant theory" ahead of all others, not even mentioning them. Whatever else, coins were not invented by merchants. The use of coins by merchants came later.
I have my own pet theories. I prefer "bonus payments to mercenaries" as meeting more facts. Even so, I suggest a "badge of conspiracy" as a possible origin. But I do not tout my own above all of others. My article takes some reading in focus as I wend through the many theories.
As for the suggestion that these objects were marked at a mine, the fact is that they were first panned from a stream as nuggets. Those nuggets were stamped with a simple punch. We know the physical objects. We do not know how they came to be used as money.
At first electrum was considered a metal different from silver and gold, not an alloy of them, although metallurgy soon advanced beyond that. From about 400 BCE to about 300 BCE, the towns of Mytilene and Phokaia shared the striking of electrum coins which they made from silver and gold in exact and steady proportions. So, they knew it was an alloy, but the market regarded it as a unary metal. Another example of that manufactured electrum are the "Kyzikenes" (Cyzicenes), coins of electrum, about 7 grams each, also called "staters". Originally natural electrum, they came to be made from gold and silver in mixed reliable proportions. They are cited in Xenophon's Anabasis: When the troops demand payment, they want their "kyzikenes."
Why coins were invented is a problem in numismatics. We capitalists like to think well of merchants, but the facts should speak for themselves. Numismatist 12:28, 27 January 2011 (CST)
- I've added a note about the theories on the origin of coins. Can you please add a date on your page, so that we know when the article was written (or "Originally posted in XYZ on 1.2.1995")? I'm not sure which of the articles at the beginning to use. A fully referenced source looks much more impressive than an undated page!
- And I completely forgot about the panning from rivers. :) Pestergaines 16:08, 27 January 2011 (CST)